The Occupy movement currently out staying their welcome like a bad smell outside St Paul’s Cathedral are the subject of a Guardian editorial today. The Groan feels that the Dean will come out of this as a villain. All of which is interesting as it was the Dean who gave this group permission to camp there in the first place. One supposes that he thought that the camp would be transient and, protest made, the protesters would decamp and go home. Unfortunately, he misjudged his guests on this occasion. They have no intention of going home and their somewhat vague anti-capitalism/corporate greed (depends on who you speak to) protest is to continue indefinitely. Not least because they don’t appear to have any firm objective or a means by which to measure its achievement. All of which is a bit of a bummer for the Dean as his cathedral remains closed while the encampment continues.
This rather messy and absurd situation has handed the dean and chapter of St Paul’s a truly historic opportunity to discredit Christianity in this country. They seem determined to take it. They should think, and stop.
Really? I would have thought the offer to allow them to camp there was perfectly in tune with the Christian ethos. Expecting them to do the decent thing and vacate the premises after a reasonable interval does not fly in the face of that original generosity.
The dean and chapter appear to have decided that health and safety considerations mean they must be rid of the makeshift camp. These grounds are frankly risible.
Maybe, maybe not. I suspect that whoever was advising the church was thinking of slips, trips and falls with so many tents packed close together in what should be a free thoroughfare. Irrespective of that, asking them to move on is a reasonable thing to do. They have made their point – well, some sort of point if one considers student union type “capitalism is bad, man” as a point; now, however, they should leave and let the cathedral return to its normal business – even if that business isn’t necessarily worship.
The protesters aren’t right about everything.
Correct. They claim to represent the 99%. They certainly don’t represent me and I suspect they don’t represent anyone who is going out to work every day not having the luxury of camping out indefinitely outside St Paul’s.
A lot of the time they aren’t even coherent enough to be wrong.
That’s a polite way of putting it 😈
But the role of the church is to talk with them and to find out how their sense of injustice at the present slump can be refined and educated and brought out into the wider conversation.
Again, maybe, maybe not. However, such a conversation does not mean that it is okay to obstruct the thoroughfare ad infinitum, does it?
If the dean and chapter continue their steps towards evicting they will be playing the villains in a national pantomime. There will be legal battles and, eventually, physical force. At every step, the cathedral authorities will be acting in the service of absurdity and injustice.
Oh, I dunno, I suspect a significant portion of the populace will be cheering them on.
I suspect a significant portion of the populace will be cheering them on.
Probably 99% of us.
But the role of the church is to talk with them and to find out how their sense of injustice at the present slump can be refined and educated and brought out into the wider conversation
‘Conversation’ about what ? When people use that word in a context like this what they mean is that the issue is already decided, a passive aggressive term used by those without the slightest interest in dissenting opinions.
I’m inclined to agree. Also, what is this conversation to be about? Even the protesters don’t seem to be coherent on what it is they want or represent – other than they don’t like the “system”.
Has anyone, apart from OH, gone down to look at some of the protest signs? I can’t speak for the St Paul’s protest, but I have seen the writing on the wall in my locale. It’s very different from some of the media reports.
As I live in Bristol and have a job to go to, no. I have seen some of the signs and banners on the BBC footage. The one I saw yesterday had something about capitalism and crisis.
“But the role of the church is to talk with them and to find out how their sense of injustice at the present slump can be refined and educated and brought out into the wider conversation.”
Eh? The role of the church is to put the fear of God into them. What would Moses do? He’d throw some stone tablets at them. That would settle their hash.
I don’t see the C of E putting the fear of God into anyone…
I went down the day before yesterday, to talk to these loonies ….
And that’s what they are, harmless loonies, various – christian, socialist, muslim -all demented.
St Pauls’ has not been “forced to close” – looking at it at 13.45 (25/10/2011), it could have easily been opened, and kept open.
The best thing to do is ignore them.
By giving them attention, we are doing the worst possible thing.
Furthermore: In the meantime, it isn’t inconveniencing the greedy and incompetent corporations one litte bit.
Which would tend to indicate a practical complete failure on someone’s part.
Right protest – possibly.
Completely wrong place.
One of the protestors I spoke to was carrying copies of Totalist Wanker, erm, Socialist Worker, open eager, bright-faced, claiming that they weren’t “stalinist” and this time should be different …
I might has well have been trying to convince a young jesuit that the Big Sky Fairy doesn’t exist.
No connection to the real world, at all.
There was small stall trying to push supposedly moderate islam there, as well – I asked them about the equality of women, and they lied to me – as if they were Roman Catholics, in fact.
A really deranged woman got up and started spouting something about rape and Jesus, waving a foil-covered card cross, and had to be watched very carefully.
Coherent protest?
No.
Yet, something is wrong – state corporatism, as practiced in China now, and the USA and formerly in the Third Reich is a great danger.
The protesters are confusing this with “capitalism
Surely the solution is for the campers to move over to the Guardian’s offices. Problem solved.
Suffer little children don’t come unto me – fuck off somewhere else.
I went down to College Green in Bristol on Saturday afternoon to spread a little subversive Libertarian propaganda. But when we got there we found that most of the protesters had apparently pissed off down the pub, They was practically no bugger there!
No suprise to learn then that 99% of the Tents outside St Pauls are empty of an evening. A part time protest at best, no privation and principle need be involved 😆
You live in Bristol Longrider? so do I. Fancy a beer?
That would be nice. Maybe when Mrs L is on leave in a week or so? BTW, neither of us drink alcohol, so it will have to be coke or fruit juice for us 😉
No alchohol? Gast well and truly flabbered! I drink like a fish myself.
Lighter on the pocket though with a pint over three quid now.
You have my email address obviously.Get in touch. Filthy day as you know. Waiting for a window of opportunity to walk the bonkers dog 😀