A Betteridge in the Groan.
But does satirising or criticising the great war really denigrate ordinary British soldiers, as the education secretary claims?
The answer to which, of course, is “no”. Despite the blathering about Blackadder, none of the criticisms of the conduct of WW1 are taking pot-shots at the courage and sacrifice of the men who went and fought – it is of those who conducted the war so wastefully, who failed to lean quickly that this was a whole new type of warfare and needed something rather more sophisticated than the Napoleonic charge when faced with mechanised killing machines.
I’ve been criticised for taking such a strong stance on this one in my earlier post (someone voted “awful” doubtless because I was less than polite about the blackguards who sent those men to early graves – if you can find them) – but I remain adamant. Resolute in my condemnation. It is not revisionist to look back at the mess and recognise that it was a waste of life, that the people conducting the war were slow to react to the realities of this new, modern, warfare with its mass slaughter. They did treat the lives of ordinary soldiers as nothing more than chess pieces on a board to be used and thrown away at will – many of whom were conscripted, which itself is an outrage. They were contemptible. But – and it clearly needs repeating, no one is saying that those who actually went to fight were lacking in courage. That said, if the sons of Europe in one voice had refused and forced the ruling houses to do their own dirty work, how magnificent would that have been?
I find Gove’s appeal to patriotism sickening, frankly. Patriotism is just another form of tribalism, so I don’t subscribe to it and when politicians wheel it out, I look upon them with the withering contempt they so richly deserve. I would never fight for patriotism, and I would never put my life on the line for Queen and country. Neither are worthy of such a sacrifice.
On the matter of Blackadder, of course, it is typical of a certain stream of dark English humour – and like much such humour, takes delight in pricking the pompousness of the establishment. It was amusing, but made a poignant point about the sacrifice. It is not, however, saying what Gove is accusing it of saying. Indeed, that he is hot under the collar about it suggests that it is achieving the desired effect – of pricking that pompousness so readily found in the political elite.
This is a good analysis of the Western Front:
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Forgotten-Victory-First-World-Realities/dp/0747264600
Look at the price! Fortunately I already have a copy, but there’s a preview facility (Blackadder covered).
One thing that helped to break the deadlock and reduce friendly fire casualties was the use of improved delay artillery shell fuses that made creeping barrages much more effective.
“I find Gove’s appeal to patriotism sickening, frankly. ”
Sir Tony Robinson is surely just as sickening when he condemns the ‘officer class’ for continuing the brutality that they apparently learnt while engaged in colonial oppression. I’m surprised he was able to accept the knighthood.
Whatever one’s views, it is a heck of a lot easier in arm-chaired hindsight.
It doesn’t really matter who is the more sickening – and I have little time for Robinson either – it is Gove’s appeal to patriotism that irks me here. Politicians will sacrifice others for their own ends and always appeal to patriotism – Queen and country bollocks to get others to do their dying for them. That makes me fucking angry. Armchairs have nothing to do with that.
I don’t feel it’s an appeal to patriotism, at all. I feel it to be an attempt to have some understand the reasons that these people willingly volunteered for what turned out to be the trenches. Yes, it was appalling and certainly highlights the legend of Lions led by donkeys, but Tommy Atkins and most didn’t know that at the time. I lost family in the trenches but what has been given down to me is that those people, in the same circumstances, would do the very same again. They knew who we were in this Country and were proud of it, something that is very much denigrated these days. We may have come from the industrial ‘back streets’ but we were no fools or idiots ( as in Blackadder, etc.) and were quite willing and proud to stand up and be counted against a Country who’s sole aim was to try and weaken our position in the world by force.
I support Gove’s efforts, here, to try and rid, particularly schools, of the idea that all the participants were fools with no idea of what it was all about. That is a massive insult to the many who didn’t come back.
Wouldn’t fight for ‘Patriotism’, Queen and Country,? fine. But it’s a good job some did.
No, Gove is wrong here – very wrong, because no one is saying everyone who took part was stupid. What is being said – quite correctly, is that many lives were wasted through incompetence at the top level. No one at all is saying Tommy Atkins was a fool. Misguided, maybe in that he was led by the nose to his slaughter.
If more people took the same approach as me – refusing to fight for Queen and Country, the politicians wouldn’t be able to fight their wars and waste young lives. Patriotism is just another word for tribalism and a piss-poor reason to lay down one’s life. I owe nothing to either the Queen or this country such that I should sacrifice my life. I’d fight tooth and nails in the event of an invasion that threatened my family and my home, because they are worth it.
The point is that, in 1914, a lot of people didn’t feel like you and they didn’t refuse. Condemn it if you wish but they didn’t. And they weren’t the ‘sheep’ of liberal view. I believe that is what Gove’s aim is and he is supported by quite a few historians. If, today the views that ordinary people had back then. upsets the modern elite and their agendas, that’s just tough.
Of course, if they taught proper factual history in schools instead of the selective brainwashing they do, this might not be a debating point.
I have to be careful what I say here as this is possibly the one subject where LR and I are poles apart and sometimes nearly come to blows 😉
But I am partly in agreement with you here Frank, peoples attitude to patriotism has changed dramatically over the past 65/70 years, I grew up in a family where (as I have mentioned before) my grandparents were Victorians and as such most of my relatives had been involved in both wars and done national service. As most regular readers here know my son is in the army and my brother also served we have a long tradition of “patriotism” in my family. Gove is a fool and a waste of space but his basis that we should not be teaching this leftist piffle of all soldiers in WWI were losers and morons is in essence correct. The trouble is Gove puts things so badly has a dire reputation and looks like a mongoloid rat so no one listens to what he is trying to say, even if it is said rather badly and in an ill considered fashion. For me with my upbringing and family background I find this modern thinking that anyone who fought for their country to give us the freedom which we now so wantonly waste is a dickhead is an appalling testament to all those live that , yes in essence wasted, but at the time were NOT wasted. if you see what I mean, the issue here is not what happened but how modern day living has changed our perception of history.
What we are missing here is that these men laid down their lives so we CAN say what we want and have freedom to move the world forward, without that ultimate sacrifice given by those who died the world today would be a very different place. The elitist rabble who sent so many to die is a totally different ball game. Let’s not forget many of the soldiers in WWI chose to enlist and even more enlisted under age because they believed in what was being done, even though they knew how many were dying and they knew the chances of them not coming home were high they went anyway because they believed and thats what kept this country free.
It is the change in attitude due to the change in us as an evolving species that is at the heart of this debate. Most of us have learnt from the massive waste of human life war brings and have no desire to repeat history, but what we MUST NOT do is denigrate those losses Historically because otherwise we have not actually learnt anything.
If we had exercised todays social “values” in 1939 we would all be speaking German now.
And this is my point – no one is saying this. It is a myth being put about by Gove. That’s why I am so angry. Because no one is claiming that the soldiers who fought and died were fools. Gove is spreading myths and untruths in order to do some political point scoring on the backs of those dead soldiers. He is a scumbag for doing so.
And that is a good thing. Hopefully, should a similar circumstance arise again, people will actually question the motives of the politicians instead of volunteering to get themselves slaughtered. Patriotism is a base, vile tribalism and the sooner we dispense with it, the better. I have lived abroad and have first hand experience of a different nation with different culture and what I was dealing with was ordinary people – just like me. Why would I want to go and kill them because our political elite fell out? Answer; I wouldn’t.
I haven’t said anything different. But, why did they feel that way? Because like the youth of today, they were heavily propagandised. A hundred years ago, propaganda filled their heads with tosh such as patriotism, King and country and Empire. Gove isn’t complaining about propaganda per se, he is complaining because it is the wrong propaganda and he doesn’t like it. Frankly, I despise all propaganda, preferring people to make up their own minds based upon an assessment of the facts. In 1914, many people were as unaware of the facts leading up to the cause of war as many still appear to be today.
As I’ve just said to Kath – the sooner we dispense with the vile tribalism of patriotism and think for ourselves and recognise that the “enemy” is a collection of ordinary people just like ourselves the better. Perhaps, then, the politicians won’t have such easy access to cannon fodder and maybe, just maybe we won’t see lives thrown away on the battlefield caused by some fucking politician’s vanity.
One man’s propaganda is another man’s truth. In your opinion they were ‘mislead’. I think I’ve an idea what they’d feel about being accused of that. (and how they’d respond) History can be defined as ‘an argument without end’. Best to leave it there.
Keep up the good work, though.
All propaganda is propaganda, truth is the first casualty – and there was plenty of it during the months following the outbreak of hostilities. People really did not know why they were fighting – how many of them could have placed Bosnia on a map and explained why the Black Hand murdered Archduke Ferdinand and how that meant we were getting involved in what was and should have remained a European war? Precious few, I suspect. The idea that there was some sort of liberal western ideal is a myth, frankly. Britain in the early twentieth century was riven by class divides that were rigidly applied. It was not liberal. One was expected to know one’s place and stay there. The myth that these people died for freedom is just that; a myth. They died because of a series of misplaced alliances and the willingness of a ruling elite to send other people to die for their cause, So, yes, the folk who went and did the fighting were cynically and deliberately misled and that is a wicked disgrace.
They made that bolshie irritant a knight? Talk about devaluing “honours” . . .
Normally Mr Longrider I am in agreement with you, on this topic I do not, Mr Richard Holmes did a good book on the subject and it is well worth a look. One of the big problems was that the army was massively expanded from a professional force of 250k men plus territorials and specials to 8m having been under arms by the end. My ire is not for Hague but the politicians who played with European politics including getting involved in armed confrontation with armies which were much larger, with trained reserves with an army that was in reality a colonial police force. Things which put the British Army in good stead in comparison to those others in the conflict was the fact that the health of the troops was seriously considered, ie the did not lose troops to epidemics, transportation of the wounded out of the front was a priority, troops were rotated out of the front line spending 1 week per month in the firing lines and even that there was an effective mail service.
Besides that keep up the good work and I do like the ‘teaching pigs to sing line’.
Which is pretty much what I’ve been saying. The Great War was a pissing contest between the ruling houses of Europe. The alliances in place made conflict inevitable once the spark ignited the tensions. It was politicians who made it all possible – the same cowardly scrotes who made damned sure they were well away from the mud, blood, guts and rotting corpses (Churchill being a rare exception, of course). No going over the top into machine gun for for them.
And, yes, I stand my my comments that Napoleonic charges against machine guns was insane.
The whole thing was a terrible waste of life and it is that waste that we need to quietly remember. Appeals to patriotism and political point scoring are crass in the extreme.
I’ve watched this discussion from the sidelines as I don’t feel that I know enough about the subject to join in. Interestingly, I keep thinking about the Pink Floyd song Us and Them.
“Us and them, and after all we’re only ordinary men. Me and you, God only knows it’s not what we would choose to do.”
And.
“Forward he cried from the rear and the front rank died. The general sat and the lines on the map moved from side to side.”