I suppose once in a while it’s bound to happen. This time – church and state.
The Church and State should be separated , Nick Clegg has said.
Yup, absolutely. The state should be entirely secular – guaranteeing freedom of religion (and from religion) with the church having no say whatsoever in law making. We are not – contrary to Cameron’s exhortations – a Christian country and nor should we be. More and more of us have no faith at all – and there are plenty now who while being religious, are not Christian. So, I do not expect Christian ideas of morality to be thrust upon me through the auspices of the state. Yes, absolutely, disestablishment and now, please.
“More and more of us have no faith at all….”
I have no faith in the church.
I have no faith in scientists.
I have no faith in the police.
I have no faith in the judiciary.
I have absolutely no faith in politicians.
CR.
You “have no faith in scientists” ??
So, the computer you typed that into & internet & all the quantum-mechanics & electronics & physics necessary to make it work, & go on working, & transmit/receive messages 24/7/365 are not real are they?
I think you need your head examined
“I have no faith in scientists.”
If you have a basic understanding of science and how it works, then no faith is required. If a scientist is making a claim to knowledge about the world, he should be able to demonstrate the reasons that he believes his claim is true. This is why climate change alarmism should be viewed with scepticism. The alarmists have so far failed to demonstrate that there is anything to be alarmed about.
Regarding the OP. I agree, the government should be entirely neutral with regard to religion. People of all faiths and non should be treated impartially. Bishops in the House of Lords are a ridiculous anachronism too.
Stony,
I get your point and agree with it. I could have elaborated by saying “I have no faith in scientists to always tell the truth because of the lies surrounding climate change, and the passive smoking myths they perpetuate in order to win more grant money”.
The church has no business being in govt, in schools or in politics generally. The church should be contained to the erm, church.
CR.
Except that, if you are a gardener & keep your eyes open, it’s obvious that the climate HAS ALREADY CHANGED – certainly compared to, say the 1960’s ….
Longer-term trends, as measured by teams of volunteer observers in their thousands, have conformed this. { Which makes the error-bars very small }
Now, the causes of those changes can be disputed & the proportion of that change down to humanity’s actions can also be disputed, but to deny any change at all is simply plain wrong
No one has said that it isn’t changing. The idea that it does not, should not and that we should take action to prevent it, is what is absurd.
“Freedom from religion”.
Genius. Sign me up to that 🙂
@Mark Wadsworth
In the US they actually have freedom of religion written into their constitution. In practice though, it doesn’t quite work as intended. So they actually have a Freedom from Religion Foundation to try and ensure that it does.
http://ffrf.org/
As with many things to do with the US Constitution people imagine it says what they think it says, rather than what it actually does!
The Second Amendment is the classic case, the first part relating to ‘well regulated Militia’ is completely ignored and people jump to the final part and demand their own tracked howitzer.
As for the First Amendment it merely prohibits congress from establishing a religion or prohibiting the people from exercising their religion. There is nothing about ‘separation of religion and the state’ that some imagine. Indeed the purpose of the ‘constitution’ is to restrict the role of the ‘federal’ congress. every ‘competence’ not gifted to congress is deemed to belong to the individual states or the people. There is nothing in the US constitution to prevent a constituent state from setting up an established religion.
Returning to the OP: a) Clegg is an idiot and a liar. b) The missing ‘elephant’ is NOT the CofE, bishops in the Lords etc. it is what fills the gap. Sure, get rid of the CofE, it has all put rolled over anyway being so guilt-ridden and wishing to ‘go with the flow’ rather than express so-called ‘eternal truths’ with some degree of (honourable?) conviction. Four percent, and rising, of the population know what is needed to fill the gap and will have no hesitation in doing so, given the helping hand of Clegg and his gang of useful idiots.
I am all in favour of this debate, as it will allow me to slip the word “antidisestablishmentarianism” into general conversation. This is wrongly famous for being the longest word in the English language. That honour actually goes to floccinaucinihilipilification.
I’m not sure that I follow that last bit JimS. What is this thing that four percent of the population want to replace religion with?
Islam.
Of course, I can be a bit slow sometimes.