I’ve had the spectre of LVT raised in the comments here. So, just briefly, in order to stop this one in its tracks.
As I said there – and I will say here, just to make sure that everyone understands, about a decade ago, I got into long discussions on this subject. Consequently, I’ve heard every argument in favour of LVT and every argument that supposedly debunks opposition and not one of them stacks up to the basic flaw. Any property tax is an abhorrence, as it is not based on ability to pay from current income. That’s it, as no argument or fiddling about at the edges, overcomes this basic flaw.
I really don’t wish to go down that rabbit hole again, so please, respect my wishes on this and do not regale me with LVT arguments as I am not prepared to get into discussions about it again. In fact, I’ll probably delete any offending comments.
Thankyou.
I would further add that any property tax undermines the fundamental idea of private ownership if the property can be seized or subject to lien for non-payment of said tax. A roof over your head is not an asset, it is an essential to life itself and there can be no excuse to seize or evict a legal owner from a property which is lawfully owned (i.e. not gained through fraud).
Yes, we went into this one with the poor widow scenario. Merely delaying seizure until death doesn’t alter the matter. It’s still theft.
That said, I oppose all taxation as a matter of principle, while accepting that a limited state needs to raise revenue, so it’s at best a necessary evil. As we don’t have a limited state, we have an overgrown, voracious, behemoth, I will go down the opposition to all taxes route for the moment.
Agree LVT is wrong and evil. Tax itself is perhaps neccessary, but should be minimised, not maximised
Many Republican US States have zero percent state tax
I don’t think you were following this blog ten years or so ago when this was a hot topic. The back and forth with Mark Wasdsworth was somewhat fruitless. The situation given by Sam Duncan is the classic hole in the argument. Mark’s solution was to simply defer the tax until death. This is not really a solution as it is a tax that is outside of current income, therefore, an unfair tax. Ability to pay must always be at the basis of any form of taxation. If it doesn’t take that into account, it is inherently immoral.
Correct, I wasn’t. However, similar was happening over at Worstall’s place with Richie and Left wanting LVT and other “wealth taxes”
On a similar note I’m against death tax too, it’s double dipping and theft
Given that Tim tends to discuss economics, yeah, not really a surprise. It’s an economist’s wet dream. Even Adam Smith was a supporter. If you think that trying to fix the economy is a good thing, it makes sense – providing you are prepared to ignore the human misery that it can cause.
The proponents of LVT are those who think that it will mean more tax for others and less tax for them.
I think that applies to proponents of all taxes.
“Any property tax is an abhorrence, as it is not based on ability to pay from current income.”
Bingo. I recently inherited my parents’ house. Since I was looking after them in their later years, I’m living there. The Council Tax alone exceeds my current income.
Yes, I’ll have to sell up (so wave goodbye to the childhood home; hey, it’s only sentiment, right?), but that takes time. If it wasn’t for their life insurance, I’d be fucked.
This is the inherent problem. No one should be forced to move home because of a tax. The usual problem with this is that added amenities raise the value of the land, so the tax goes up. Don’t like it? Move house. That this is deeply immoral seems to bypass advocates. The augments in favour are all theoretical economics and lack any form of human empathy.
I spent days with arguments going back and forth with Mark Wadsworth. I like Mark and we agree on many things, but not on this and nothing he said persuaded me. Which is why I don’t particularly want to revisit it.
It is like a tax on unrealized gains.
And hideously regressive.
I thought we a had a ‘land value tax’ called Council Tax.
Lets do what Maggie should have had the balls to do – Poll Tax.