Nigel Farage should be excluded from the television debates before the general election next year, Ed Miliband has said.
That speaks volumes about the vile Miliband. Of course, having just seen Farage wipe the floor with Clegg, I suppose his reluctance to face off with a real person as opposed to another of the political class would make him concerned. That’s the problem with these parasites – they live in a bubble where they are safely shielded from the real world inhabited by real people, many of whom dislike their policies and constant finger-wagging interference in our lives. Far easier to just pretend we don’t exists and excluding Farage from the debates would be doing just that.
Look, I think the format we had last time with parties that have representation in parliament is a good format.
Well, yes, he would. LibLabCon; three cheeks of the same loathsome arse. Those of us on the outside of that rarefied bubble would like to see an outsider give these scumbags a run for their money – not least given that I will never vole LibLabCon ever again, so the three main parties in parliament is of no interest to me and what lies they have to witter is of even less interest. I am not listening. I am not voting for them. I am not alone – although there are still far too many who will vote on tribal lines, more’s the pity.
“Look, I think the format we had last time with parties that have representation in parliament is a good format.”
That is what used to be known as a closed shop isn’t it? A rather convenient argument for Milliband to use because it precludes anyone not already in the club from getting a look in.
OT but I came across this and I thought that you might be interested in it.
http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424052702303978304579475860515021286?mod=rss_opinion_main&mg=reno64-wsj
Hi Stonyground,
When I saw the comment, “Look, I think the format we had last time with parties that have representation in parliament is a good format”, my thought were, fine – let’s add the DUP, Plaid Cmryu, and the Sinn Fein crowd. That should spice things up a bit……
Andy.
What a little shit. He must know that folk are going to see he’s just running scared. He can’t possibly think coming out with a statement like that is going to do him any good.
The only logical course of action is to allow Farage into the debate and then dubunk his ideas. Obviously he has no hope of doing that.
The problem is Farrage has no members of parliament, if high profile, televised ‘leaders’ debates were open to him, then they ought to be open to the Greens (who have one member), Plaid Cymru, the SNP, the various Irish parties (who have several) and arguably any socialists, Respect as well as the the Monster Raving Loonies all of whom contest by-elections across the country and muster support.
Arguably they all should take part, but then Cameron, Milliband and Clegg would probably not bother to show up as the debates would not be representative of parliament. Then the channels wouldn’t bother to show the debates and there would be none to worry about….
Yes, that’s the excuse being put forward over at the Groan. I don’t accept it. Parliament is a representation of voting that took place nearly five years ago. Since then, Ukip’s popularity has increased. They are now a force in British politics despite not having an MP. This should not debar them. And, yes, let’s hear what the other minor parties have to say. I have already heard what those who reside in parliament have to say and I don’t like it and won’t be voting for any of the buggers. If we are to have these debates, then we should have the outliers involved or not have them.
You may imagine that UKIP are ‘popular’, but they failed to even win Eastleigh from the then deeply unpopular Lib Dems, with a not entirely swivel-eyed loon candidate (far from it), in an area that UKIP should expect to be able to muster votes and, unlike the Greens and Respect, currently have no members of parliament. There has to be some limits as to who could take part in televised debates in the run up to the general election and not having members in parliament is as good a bar as any.
Whatever happens at the next election, Farrage will not be prime minister, it is still quite doubtful (presently) whether the UKIP vote will do more to split the Tory and Labour vote in ‘safe’ seats and even get an MP at the next election. (Lots can change in the meantime and they may well!)
I don’t think that lack of airtime in a ‘leaders’ debate will do much to win or loose them votes either – the people who want to vote for them will do so already and I doubt the donkeys with red (or blue) rosettes will change and being rabidly anti-EU they are unlikely to take many votes from natural Lib Dems either.
Eastleigh was a safe seat. Even so, Ukip did well pushing the Tories into third place – so they did indeed muster votes and to achieve that in a safe Lib Dem seat was a good result. Despite their polling, they are handicapped by our electoral system. It takes decades for a new party to break the deadlock. So, yes, their popularity has increased and they are a measurable force in our political landscape, so yes, Farage should be included in any debates. If we are to restrict it to potential PMs then Clegg has no place being involved.
Eastleigh was a ‘safe seat’ for the Conservatives for 40 years! It only went to the Lib Dems in 1994 and, IIRC, was not considered ‘that’ safe. Remember the MP that had stood down (Huhne) was hardly well thought of at the time either!
The electoral system is what it is, there was a chance to change it at the start of this parliament but that was marginalised badly, one can hope that the next coalition don’t bother to put it to the people, but just put it through parliament, depending what happens in Scotland, as long as there is not a Tory majority I can’t see the remaining parties not wanting to adopt it – as the Tories have the most to loose in that scenario. If we do get a sensible proportional representation system, then we’ll have coalitions for ever, but at least we’ll get a democratic representation of the desires of voters.
I still don’t see that a party with no standing MPs at all should have a say in any TV debates – their ‘popularity’ (real or imagined) is by no means established.
I fail to see why not having an MP should disqualify a party from having a voice – and that is what these debates are supposed to be about. Only the sitting incumbents having their say is simply an echo chamber and nothing else. Not worth listening to. It is the outside voice challenging the status-quo that is likely to give the whole thing some meaning. That is what is supposed to happen in a democracy – you know, we all get a say. But, then, the sitting incumbents – with the exception of Clegg, it would seem – are running scared of the opinions of many out in the real world. If only those with MPs are to be allowed to debate – irrespective of their popularity at large, then this is not a democracy.
And as for Ukip’s popularity not being established, then you have not been paying attention. We have already discussed Eastleigh where they knocked the Tories into third place. That they have not won a seat yet does not alter the increased vote they are getting. That is enough as far as I am concerned to give them their say, not what happened at the last general election.
I think UKIP do have a voice (well, one anyway). And we hear it quite a lot. Even managed to get a 1 hour programme on Channel 4 prime time earlier this week.
Don’t think ‘not paying attention’ is quite right – you ought to refer back to my first post on the subject where I wrote “Arguably they all should take part, but then Cameron, Milliband and Clegg would probably not bother to show up as the debates would not be representative of parliament. Then the channels wouldn’t bother to show the debates and there would be none to worry about….” They are not interested in playing the game with an unelected (never even stood has he?*) wannabe Westminster politician.
You are quite right as to the UKIP vote rising and I expect they will probably do pretty well in the European elections (barring any gaffes between now and then) but so far they have not been enough to unseat a candidate from an ‘established’ party. I expect that time will come, but I very much doubt they will manage to make much of an impression but we’ll see soon enough. That’s an impression at the next general election – the one where we can all have our say.
* Edit – Yes he has unsuccessfully contested five parliamentary elections, the most recent was when he failed to unseat John Bercow in Buckingham in 2010 where he came 3rd behind ‘Buckinghamshire Campaign for Democracy’ candidate.