A working class one at that…
Boris Johnson’s deputy at the Foreign Office has claimed the EU referendum result was partially caused by working class voters throwing a “bit of a tantrum” over immigration.
Sir Alan Duncan said traditional blue-collar Labour supporters had been “stirred up” by the immigration issue in the run up to June 23 last year, prompting them to back Brexit.
Here we go again…
I recall the last time we had a vote on it. I was just too young to vote, but not too young to appreciate why being in the Common Market wasn’t such a good idea. Had I been old enough, I would have voted to leave. Forty years later, nothing had happened to change my mind. The EU is a deeply undemocratic organisation. It operates on the principle of European (Roman/Napoleonic) rather than common law principles, it is a top-down demagogic entity that ignores the common masses over which it presides. It is steeped in arrogance and is run by self-serving, gravy train troughers (how’s that for a mixed metaphor?) for their benefits rather than ours.
Immigration had nothing to do with my decision to vote leave. Any reduction in the layers of government is a good thing. Anything that reduces bureaucracy and the hangers-on that it creates is a good thing. Anything that moves democratic decisions closer to those directly affected by them is a good thing. As for it being a tantrum, well, if I had one, it was forty years ago when we voted to remain in this vile, corrupt oligarchy. My decision last year was rational, logical and calculated. There was no sign of a tantrum and I repeat, immigration played no part in my decision. Alan Duncan is an idiot.
If Brex??hite brings any real lasting reduction in governmental layers or any other of the improvements you mention, then I’m a Dutchman (God, how I wish I was!). The one thing that Brex??hite is certain (besides the increased persecution of smokers) to bring is MORE bureaucracy and PMT.May has already ensured that those we elect to the Neo-First Protectorate Parliament will be ‘further’ away fromand less accountable to the Great Unwashed-ie thee and me.
Don’t misunderstand me, I ‘get’ the dream but it is a pipe dream …except no one after Brex will be able to afford to smoke a pipe…at least not without a valid smoking licence.
We were asked the question and I gave my answer. There is no real need for a superstate such as the EU. It is superfluous and the sooner it implodes the better for everyone involved.
I would like to see democracy at a much lower level as it really doesn’t scale – a Swiss canton style perhaps. Getting out of the EU is one small step in the right direction. Maybe it will work, maybe not, but that is no reason to stay.
“I would like to see democracy at a much lower level as it really doesn’t scale”, I agree but see the EU as an answer to overscaled national democracies. A canton style could indeed work but we’re not Swiss. If JC gets his way we’ll probably become a Räterepublik.
That’s where we differ. The EU is part of the problem, not the solution as it is entirely undemocratic, being autocratic.
No, we are not Swiss, but we could learn much from them. Even the French have working local democracy in their communes. Incredibly effective it is, too.
I would contend the biggest lesson we could learn from the Swiss would be that the UK needs to become a canton of a Federal EU….which, the EU becoming a federal superstate, is what I think was at the heart of Juncker’s recent speech. Unfortunately (especially for the Catalans atm) that only happens after either a period of wars (as in CH) or by an unelected authoritarian heavy hand (Juncker) or both (Bismarck).
Thanks but no thanks.
I’ll take Brexit, over the ever ratcheting super-state of the EU.
Don’t misunderstand me, I ‘get’ the dream but it is a pipe dream… no matter how appealing they sound these projects aimed at top down control never work out well for the population…
Immigration played a part in my choice to vote leave, but it was far outweighed by my desire to remove a layer of government from over our heads.
It certainly wasn’t a tantrum. If anything, it’s the remainers who lost that are throwing all the tantrums
I don’t have a problem with immigration, I have a problem with a failure to integrate.
I have a problem with access to the welfare system
That’s not an insurmountable problem, though, is it?
I have a problem with cramming more and more people onto an already overcrowded island.
London might be crowded, the rest isn’t.
Sir Alun Duncan? Cur Alun Duncan methinks…………….
I don’t think I can argue with what you say – except that I have to admit that I was just about old enough to vote last time and voted to remain. My excuse was that I was young, stupid and naive and compare my self in those days to the brainwashed yoof who seem to be hero worshipping Compo Corbyn.
This has taught me two things :
(1) You should not be allowed to vote under 21 unless you are taxpayer
(2) The EU is a total crock of shit sold to me by Kiddyfiddler Heath who is on record as saying “If we tell the public the truth, they’ll never go for it.” He was right and I swallowed the lie.
More fool me. But I know better these days…
While it’s true that Heath was a lying shit (he was a politician, what do you expect?), the kiddie fiddler stuff is unproven. Given that he is dead and unable to defend himself, they will always remain allegations and I take the innocent until proven guilty line.
Unfortunately we’ve seen a rash of these allegations – and several of them have been shown to be spurious – Cliff Richard and Leon Brittan spring to mind. There are chancers out there who have latched onto this particular bandwagon in the hope of some compo and our justice system is enabling them.
“Sir Alan Duncan, a Foreign Office minister, said he believes that getting a deal on Brexit will be “fraught with difficulty”…”
I was always taught that if something’s difficult, it must be worth doing.
Indeed.
Well. He’s right, isn’t he? A Tantrum by those so idle and uneducated they are outcompeted by those for whom English is a second or third language. The delicious and just irony in this is that the non working classes will be shafted far more comprehensively by brexshit Britain that they ever were before.