I’ve made clear here my objection to the invasion of Ukraine. No amount of excuses ever justified an invasion. Ergo, I am vey much not on the Putin side of this fence. However, equally, nor do I subscribe to the slavering hero worship of the Ukraine president that is rapidly reaching sickening levels of infantile obsequence.
MPs have backed giving Ukrainian president Volodymyr Zelensky an honourary knighthood in recognition of his defiant stand against Russia.
Boris Johnson is being urged to put Mr Zelensky forward for the title to underline Britain’s support in the face of Vladimir Putin‘s aggression.
There are things to admire. His willingness to stay and be the symbol of resistance for example, but even so, let’s please operate in the realm of reality. He is not a god, nor is he perfect. He’s a man. Can we please leave it at that.
We’ve gone from mass delusion about covid killing us all to slavish uncritical worship of a man in a far country and presumably covid is no longer going to kill us all.
I despise the government, the media and increasingly my fellow man. How are people so readily swept along by a narrative without once stopping to ask themselves if it is honest and true? Critical thinking is dead and buried.
As an example of the rampant stupidity on display on a daily basis, look upon this and despair.
Whoever put this fallacious bollocks together clearly is no Sherlock.
“Tories made Brexit happen.”
Well technically I suppose but they didn’t actually want to did they? The referendum was held to get rid of UKIP, they didn’t expect the leave vote to happen. Having then painted themselves into a corner they tried every underhanded move that they could think of to avoid actually leaving.
They only made Brexit happen because their feet were held to the fire. The image is an example of the deranged bullshit out there. People actually believe this nonsense.
“I’ve made clear here my objection to the invasion of Ukraine”
And therein lies the rub. Invasion or conflict? It depends which side one is on. The question here I think is that of intent, and I’ve seen plenty of evidence so far that the Russians have no intention of taking/annexing Ukraine, they are there to take out the Zalentskyy led fascists of the Azov home guard because they posed a threat to Russia. We all object to invasions, including myself but in this case, despite the long back story, the Russians have been found guilty before the crime has been committed. I say wait to see how this ends.
I can see this glorification of Zalentskyy is beyond parody, its getting dangerous, when US senators are calling for a hit on Putin and attempting to coerce the Polish into sending NATO MiG jets in. From the moment this started, Western leaders, aided by the media have not only shot themselves in both feet, but blown off their kneecaps as well. And we taxpayers are paying for it.
And there’s not one single thing to admire about Zalentskyy.
They have crossed the border, ergo, it is an invasion. I don’t care what the excuse is, it is an invasion of a sovereign nation, so is objectively immoral. Invasion is never moral.
I’m not aware of anyone appointing Putin as Azov finder general. Unless the Ukrainian forces crossed the border into Russia, he has no damned business going into a sovereign nation to take anyone out. See also Saddam Hussein and the invasion of Iraq. That was immoral for precisely the same reason, regardless of what we thought of the man and his regime.
The crime was committed when the first tank crossed the border.
Yup. Agree.
His willingness to remain in situ while there is a target on his back is an admirable demonstration of courage. You don’t have to like or agree with the man to recognise this. But I find the slobbering hero worship infantile and stomach churning.
“I’m not aware of anyone appointing Putin as Azov finder general.”
Well someone had to do it, but that’s a separate argument. No one appointed Bush as WMD finder general either.
“See also Saddam Hussein and the invasion of Iraq.”
Yes I agree. But where was all the outrage and ‘standwithiraq’ hashtags back then? Where were all the iraq flags in Twitter bios? To me the justification of this one is different. Iraq was never a threat to either the USA or UK.
“His willingness to remain in situ while there is a target on his back”
Well, that’s got to be true because the Daily Mail said it.
If you dig deep enough you’ll probably find that Zalentskyy isn’t anywhere near Ukraine. He’s evil, not stupid.
Not really, no. Just as no one had to do anything about Saddam.
This is much the general point I’m making. There were marches on the streets of London, though, and plenty of expression of disapproval across the country. There are also those of us who would like to see a reckoning.
Nope. It’s exactly the same. The invasion of a sovereign nation is an absolute moral wrong. Nothing justifies it.
I believe it was over at Samizdata that this one got discussed. For all the faults of our media – and they are legion – I’ll grant them just a little more trust than I grant the Russian media, frankly. Not much, but just a tad. If he isn’t in Kiev, then there needs to be some evidence produced to demonstrate it. Otherwise, without that evidence, I’ll take the status quo position and accept that he is where he says he is.
And how are the the Zalentskyy led fascists of the Azov home guard such a threat to a much larger more heavily armed neighbour?
The invasion was immoral, and the shelling of nuclear plants and hospitals perhaps crimes against humanity. Maybe, being charitable, Russia hoped to secure the two Russian speaking regions and secure a swift regime change… if so they have failed.
“And how are the the Zalentskyy led fascists of the Azov home guard such a threat to a much larger more heavily armed neighbour?”
Because they wanted to join NATO to put nukes along the Russian border. Not only that but it was only when the Russians went in, they found US owned biowarfare labs, also near the border and the US embassy was trying to destroy documents which proved their existence. Those documents have been published if you care to look for them. Given that NATO is nothing more than a political tool of the US, none of this surprises me. Putin’s reaction is only to be expected.
There’s not much fighting going on now as its become guerilla warfare. Most of the Ukrainian military has surrendered, leaving the neo-nazi element hardcore moving to the middle of cities and using citizens as human shields. There are plenty of non-MSM news videos documenting this. The Azov batallion isn’t the only one, there are more, such as Right Sector. As I said, look a bit further than the MSM because you’re only getting one side of this complex story.
One thing I can’t stomach about this, is that all those donating to and supporting Zalentskyy are unknowingly funding a nazi regime, followers of Stepan Bandera, look him up.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stepan_Bandera
One more thing, Mr. Harper, both the nuclear plant and hospital incidents have been debunked in a few places (not Russian news sites either). An illumination flare came down in the car park of a building bordering the nuclear plant (there is a video of this). It caused a fire which was quickly extinguished, the plant was tens of metres away.
The hospital was exactly that, a hospital – not a maternity hospital as reported on TV. The UAF had driven everybody out and taken it over as a military base with snipers on the roof. The Russians took them out very cleanly, with guided shells. No one there but the UAF.
This is the Azov battalion in action, when someone doesn’t agree with them.
https://twitter.com/canttem/status/1502185087734980610
“And there’s not one single thing to admire about Zalentskyy”
Spot on. Like Putin & Russia he & Ukraine are corupt, probably more so than Russia, he jails journalists & oposition politicians and supports a very real Nazi military and militia.
C4 News have been jumping though hoops the report and excuse the SS badges on soldiers, far-right militia etc with implied “they’re good ‘bad people’ because Russia”.
A lot of suspicion too that many attacks on civilianians, proprty etc in the East is by the far-right militia, not Russia
The West should butt out and end sanctions etc
If a war, real or proxy, is to be launched against Russia, what are the strategic and tactical objectives? Could somebody explain? “Defence of democracy” is hardly credible coming from the infantilized psychopaths who, for the last few decades, have wiped their collective arse on everything from magna carta to the fundamental definitions of man and woman.
It’s not a case of excusing or supporting Putin. He has invaded, which is stupid and wrong, and almost certainly will be counter productive.
I’m largely with Peter Hitchens on this, who points out today that Russia is actually poor and quite weak, and whatever leverage it has over the EU (which has something like three times its population and around ten times its nominal GDP) is due to aforementioned infantilised psychopaths and their obsession with “net zero”.
The vaunted Russian military doesn’t actually seem that good, which is not what we are being told (if they’re not stopped in Kiev – wherever that is- they’ll be in Calais in a week!)
The west – the EU certainly – has been stupidly yanking Russia’s chain for years. Their record in the Balkans is a not very encouraging precedent.
As for the US. The degenerate vegetable is their bitch. Not sure about the moronic, racist gorgon, the worlds foremost expert on borders! But neither of these gurning half wits could lead shit round a U bend never mind what is euphemistically called the “free” world (not sure who the puppet master actually is. Some opinion favours obummer, the (sort of) black B liar)
Fuck me it’s beyond depressing.
Is China really going to be the honest broker here?
Fucking clown would would be nirvana!!
“If a war, real or proxy, is to be launched against Russia, what are the strategic and tactical objectives? Could somebody explain?”
I’ll try, at least partially. You could say its a proxy civil war. NATO has been poking the bear for years with its expansionism, using the current Ukrainian regime as a lever to install nukes along the Russian border. This has a lot to do with the Bidens. A nuke launched from the border would only take a few minutes to reach Moscow and there’s the threat. Think back to the US reaction when Russia dumped nukes on Cuba. That was in retaliation to the US dumping their nukes in Turkey. Russia needs Ukraine to be a neutral buffer state, just as the US needs Cuba for the same reason. Zelentskyy doesn’t want to be neutral, he wants Ukraine to join NATO and line the border with nukes supplied by the US. Zalentskyy is neo-nazi and hates Russia.
The US/NATO was not expecting Putin to take any action. After all, Zelentskyy’s military have been shelling the Donbas region for the last 8 years. The result of this is the sanctions, which won’t affect Russia in the least, because this episode has the unintended consequence of driving Russia and China together. The USA is about to lose the dollar as the world’s reserve currency. Meanwhile, Putin has gone back to a gold-backed ruble.
Ukraine had no strategic interest to the USA before this. If you follow events back over years you will see how this situation has developed. Basically it concerns money and goes straight to the top.
If Zalentskyy hadn’t been helped into power, East and West Ukraine would be living in peace and Russia would have no need to intervene.
In reply to your comment about the Russian forces not being that good, its true that they have had setbacks but having removed the main Ukrainian miltary, the hardened nazi element are now moving into cities. The Russians can’t just carpet bomb the area because of civilians and property so they are using precision weaponry. Guerilla warfare and street to street fighting is a lot slower.
Sorry,”keev”
@Ripper
Sounds about right. I don’t think Ukraine has any real strategic interest to anybody except Russia.
It’s not the first time the fatherland has cast its eyes eastwards. The lebensraum/resource base it coveted was the coal/steel of the Donbas, the oil of the Caucasus and the grain of the Ukraine and the north Caucasus.
A lot of this resource base is not within the Russian empire anymore but it is profoundly stupid to think it can be taken without provoking some sort if Russian reaction.
As you say, a little pragmatic realpolitik was all that was needed, but what do we have instead?
Russia is not our enemy, it should be our friend. If the reich wants to try and grab the Ukraine again, I really can’t see what conceivable British interest can be served by helping it. (genuine US interest either). It’s quadruply stupid in the American case as they have the serious military genuinely frightening to Russia.
Regarding the Russian military, it looks a lot different from moscow. Russia has something like 25 times the land area of Britain. Around 12000 miles of border, and little more than twice the UK population and not much more that half the UK GDP to defend it.
I wonder what exactly these anti democratic, anti human psychopaths really have against it.
Russia is not our enemy,
Yes, it absolutely is.
This is not Putin’s first circus. He destabilised Georgia. He has done nasty work in Moldova with Trans-Dnestr. He has launched serious cyber-attacks on Estonia, never mind all the private hacking he allows to happen inside his borders.
He spends large amounts of money attempting to undermine the West. Perhaps Ripper is just a man who has such a distrust of the Azov Battalion because he hates Nazis — but then Russia has many more actual Nazis, so why bag the Ukraine. (For a “Nazi” state, the Ukrainians are odd electing a Jewish leader — but then the number of votes for the far right there is tiny. Every country has some fascists.)
Russia stands for almost everything the West opposes. That’s not to say that we should attack it. But it is naive to suggest that it is not our enemy.
Does China get a free pass too?
It’s also worth bearing in mind that this is a state that is perfectly happy to carry out political assassinations on our soil causing collateral damage to British citizens, so it is definitely our enemy. We might not be in a hot war – and I don’t want us to be – but yes, very much the enemy here.
@Chester,
So, what in your opinion is the difference between an Azov nazi and an ‘actual’ nazi? And why don’t those members of the Twitter mob suddenly want to go out and punch one any more?
Just to clarify, I don’t hate nazis, they are ordinary people brainwashed into an ideology, and its the ideology I hate. Same with Communism, though today you couldn’t get a fag paper between the two.
Regarding jews, may I suggest you do a little looking up on the different jewish factions and their histories. But that’s where religion gets drawn into it, and I refuse to participate in those discussions.
“Russia stands for almost everything the West opposes.”
That does not mean that the West is right, or should hold the moral high ground.
Whilst not wanting to get into an argument about which flavour of Slav is the most eeeevil we need to remember some basics.
The same usual suspects who have spent the last 2 years lying through their teeth about Covid, lockdown, masks, care homes, PPE, Midazolam, early intervention, Ivermectin, viral spread, etc etc etc are now frantically shouting Squirrel about Ukraine.
That’s the same Ukraine where”In literally the last week and a half: we went from “There are NO Nazi militias fighting in place of the Ukrainian military in Eastern Ukraine and there are NO U.S. funded bioweapons lab there either you stupid conspiracy theory idots!” to “Oh you meant THOSE private Nazi militia groups and THOSE U.S. funded bioweapons labs!” They lost control, folks. They’re not on control any more. That’s why you’re watching them frantically being overtaken by events right now.”
So any verdict on events anywhere in the world from our current politicians or MSM & their useful idiots needs to be taken with several skiploads of salt
Excellent points.
@Nessimmersion
Well said and true
There is a story on the web that the Ukraine was about to launch a massive offensive against the breakaway regions: you know, the civilians the Ukraine has been shelling for 8 years.
It ‘explains’ why the majority of the Ukraine army was in the east of the country, ready for kick-off.
Hence the Russian attack was preemptive. On this narrative.
No idea if this is true or fabrication, and with the media full of lies, how to tell? Safest is to believe none of it.
But it were true, it’d be a conceivable just cause. Maybe other causes too, how would anyone in the West know? So no, I don’t buy the pantomime villain and Zelensky Fairy Godmother.
And Nulan was on oath when she admitted to the US DoD funded biolabs in Ukraine. That stank. So the Russian tale about them was mostly true, then.
We’ll have to wait 50 years for the history books.
In one, Tim.
I suppose I should add, for the hard of thinking:
This is not to claim the Russians are the good guys.
Why this need to create polar opposites.
I think both sides in this are despicable.
It seems the UK media are perfectly happy with bombed towns and dead civilians, if they are Arabs: Syrians, Libyans, Afghans, Iraqis. It’s only if they are white is it an outrage, so it seems. I just cannot stand the hypocrisy of the media.
I wouldn’t argue with any of what you are saying. I know more about Putin than I do about Zelensky, so I’m able to make more of a judgement. Putin is old KGB and has the attitude that goes with it – see my comments about the Salisbury killings. He also has plenty of form when it comes to aggressive behaviour in other countries – Georgia, Chechnya, Estonia for example. He is not one of the good guys here. Not even close. Maybe the same applies to Zelensky, but it is difficult to form a rational judgment with all the clutter of media hype going on, so I reserve that judgment for the moment. All I will say is that despite the hype, he isn’t the embodiment of Churchill.
LR, You know more about Putin, in which case its far easier to see him as an enemy than it is Zalentskyy. I get that, and I’m not saying that either of them are good people. But betrayal never comes from your enemy, it always comes from someone you trust. Just a thought here.
On the subject of the Salisbury killings, I could never make any sense of anything in the news, but this article seems very informative. I haven’t followed any of the links in it but it does seem to put the puzzle together somewhat, and is well worth a read.
https://thesaker.is/the-british-spy-skripal-hoax/
I neither trust nor distrust Zelinsky – I simply do not have enough information with which to make a reasoned assessment. I am sufficiently wise enough to recognise that there has been a bombardment of propaganda on both sides and that there is not a matter of saints and demons.
My main thrust here is that whatever Zelinsky’s record, the adulation – uncritical adulation – is stomach churing.
LR, perhaps you are aware of ‘Toxic Dagger’. A 3 week NBC attack simulation. Carried out by HM Armed Forces including 40 Commando. In Salisbury. Beginning 20th Feb 2018. Ending 12th March 2018. The Skripals were found unconscious on 4th March…….. Maybe the Russians used the opportunity as cover. Maybe the Brits lost some ‘stuff’ (I remember the French anti terrorism officers losing a couple of packets of Semtex they had placed air in travellers luggage for the sniffer dogs to find. Which they didn’t: “Did you pack this bag yourself sir”?
Or as Ripper links to above, maybe it never happened……
It’s our enemy but we should not attack it? So it’s a country we should be wary of, like many others in this world who are not our enemy.
Enemy is an evocative word and to declare somebody or something an enemy and to do so publically invites them to act like one. Perhaps in the case of Russia – given the hysterical blaming of Putin for, among other things, Trump, brexit and a convoy of Canadian nazis in trucks – it’s too late. There are all sorts of ways Russia can conduct a proxy in return, particularly given the utter refusal to maintain borders. And wouldn’t it be nice if they started selling some serious hardware to Argentina for example.
I would posit that in the last 5 years (and for a long time before that) the EU has done a damn site more to undermine our economy and institutions than Russia. Their weaponization of Ulster (tacitly – well more than tacitly – supported by the US) is ongoing. I think it’s the EU that is encroaching on Russia, and NATO is the excuse the US is using for their own encroachment (which I honesty can’t see any strategic logic to). What is our interest in helping either do this?
Attacks on British citizens? The tacit support from the US for the IRA (which came within an ace of assassinating pretty well the whole government at one point). Saudi support for muslim terrorists etc.
What about the Balkans, who primarily kicked that off? As I recall, a major factor was a unilateral recognition by the reich of their old wartime Croatian allies.
Don’t get me started on 20 year’s of wasteful interference in the middle east (and the lies – which I for one fell for – which got us involved), wrecking countries and fomenting cliff knows how many gangs of thugs for our Saudi “allies” to fund.
Should China get a free pass? Absolutely not, but it is! A point Peter Hitchens made is that all the hate for Russia is a proxy for a west that is too cowardly or blind to see China as the real long term threat. If Russia is (is?) pushed into the arms of China, what will that do other than to strengthen China?
I believe it was palmerston who said we have neither friends nor enemies, merely interests. What are our interests regarding Russia. What are our fundamental differences with Russia? If this is to be couched in ideological terms, what ideology is opposing what ideology? (that would be a start. In cold war days it was obvious. Not anymore)
Ukraine may want to join NATO and the EU but should it be allowed to? The reason Thailand (Siam then of course) was not colonised was because the British and French empires – run by serious people – understood that if either were to take it and there was a direct border between them, conflict was likely, hence they agreed that leaving Thailand alone as a buffer suited the interests of all three.
But as I said, serious people, not the infantilised twitter mob.
As another serious person once said, the whole eastern question (the Balkans in this example) isn’t worth the healthy bones of a pomeranian grenadier.
I find that very difficult to argue.
You’re straying into whatabaoutery territory here, because I am very much in agreement with much of what you say – it simply isn’t relevant to this single issue. The Soviet Union was an enemy and we treated it accordingly without engaging in a hot war. Putin is behaving as if he wishes to restore the Soviet union. So, yeah, I regard him as an enemy. I can regard the EU as an enemy as well – it’s why I was happy to vote leave. I can deplore their behaviour (as well as the US’ behaviour over the IRA) without it affecting my position on Putin’s Russia. I can dislike both with equal vigour.
I agree with much of what you say as well but I do think whataboutery is actually appropriate here.
Yes, the soviet union was an enemy and while we didn’t get into a hot war, there was a lot of nasty, low level conflict waged by proxies. Millions died and were reduced to various forms of degradation in the process.
If I may, I think there are some crucial differences here.
I think during the cold war, the decision makers were of a generally somewhat higher calibre than the clowns we see now. Many if them had direct experience of war and its consequences. Listening to some of the current hysterical outpourings is terrifying.
There were “rules” of sorts, or at least understanding that both sides had red lines. Again, I’m anything but convinced that is the case here, likely a consequence of the infantilization and lack of proper life experience of much of what is euphemistically referred to as the “political class” in the west. I think one of the rules was to limit what went on in each others back yards. Yes, Kennedy did threaten Khrushchev directly who did back down, but Kennedy I believe did remove the missiles from turkey which started the Soviets off in the first place. Had the current political class been around then, I suspect we would not today be having this conversation.
Ukraine wants to join the west formally to use it against Russia (Poland and the baltics are also playing silly buggers, and are able to exploit the labyrinthine mechanisms of toytown austria Hungary into an anti russian stance. Understandable perhaps given recent history – and I suspect the political class of these countries understand a damn site better than the Brussels sewer how to wind Russia up). We should say no and come to some understanding that it be left alone (probably too late now).
Where will this end? Russia is not strong, and it may well get bogged down and could easily end up humiliated and maybe even broken. What would that look like and what would they do?
As machiavelli said. In victory, either be magnanimous or break your enemy beyond any hope of recovery. You can do that with people, can you do it with nations (particularly one with several thousand nukes).
Is either really possible? Will Russia ever trust the west, and given what it has endured in the last 100 years, could it ever be broken?
TBF I wouldn’t really argue with you here, especially regarding the calibre of those in charge a few decades back.
That’s what’s terrifying!
Considering that Tony Blair was recently awarded a knighthood it could be argued that a UK knighthood is more an insult than a honour these days.
@Mark
“ll the hate for Russia is a proxy for a west that is too cowardly or blind to see China as the real long term threat. If Russia is (is?) pushed into the arms of China, what will that do other than to strengthen China?”
Exactly, and we have now pushed Russia into the arms of China. For decades Russia wanted to be an allie with West as they see China threat, and China claims large parts of Siberia are theirs. We repeatedly rebuffed and lied to Russia.
.
Mark, Nessimmersion, Ripper, Tim
Agree.
It troubles me that despite the lies, misinformation, censorship, proganda etc pushed by Gov’t & MSM over Brexit, Covid, Global Warming etc many have now seen through. Something new comes along and the sheep again unquestingly accept what Gov’t & MSM tell them.
Two good articles that may help open peoples minds
“Putin’s Actions in Ukraine are Vile, But Russia was Sorely Provoked by NATO”
Ramesh Thakur at the Toda Peace Institute argues that “failure to course correct will feed the continued disregard by the leading Western powers of other major powers’ legitimate security interests” – in particular, paving the way “for yet another, possibly even more dangerous, armed conflict with China”
“Nor was it only the Americans. Documents from the US National Security Archive were published in 2017 with the title: ‘Declassified documents show security assurances against NATO expansion to Soviet leaders from Baker, Bush, Genscher, Kohl, Gates, Mitterrand, Thatcher, Hurd, Major, and Woerner’.”
https://toda.org/global-outlook/putins-actions-in-ukraine-are-vile-but-russia-was-sorely-provoked-by-nato.html
Being born in 1962 and growing up in NI during “the troubles” the comparison with NI below resonates as media, left, NGOs and US were pro the terrorist “freedom fighters” who bombed, murdered and mutilated civilians, police and then army too
We haven´t begun to see the consequences of this war
This is why the US wanted Ukraine in Nato in the first place as, we now
see, a sacrificial lamb.
https://www.conservativewoman.co.uk/we-havent-begun-to-see-the-consequences-of-this-war/
Typo Fix, delete 51439 please
@Mark
“ll the hate for Russia is a proxy for a west that is too cowardly or blind to see China as the real long term threat. If Russia is (is?) pushed into the arms of China, what will that do other than to strengthen China?”
Exactly, and we have now pushed Russia into the arms of China. For decades Russia wanted to be an allie with West as they see China threat, and China claims large parts of Siberia are theirs. We repeatedly rebuffed and lied to Russia.
.
Mark, Nessimmersion, Ripper, Tim
Agree.
It troubles me that despite the lies, misinformation, censorship, proganda etc pushed by Gov’t & MSM over Brexit, Covid, Global Warming etc many have now seen through. Somethingnew comes along and the sheep again unquestingly accept what Gov’t & MSM tell them.
Two good articles that may help open peoples minds
Being born in 1962 and growing up in NI during “the troubles” the comparison with NI below resonates as media, left, NGOs and US were pro the terrorist “freedom fighters” who bombed, murdered and mutilated civilians, police and then army too
More exposure of Ukraine’s state backed Nazi militia
Meanwhile MSM forget they – inc BBC – were hystericaly warning about the Nazi threat pre Biden
I simply don’t believe the fucking insane shit in this thread, especially the grovelling-to-the-KGB ( oops FSB ) bollocks being expressed by: Ripper / AC Harper / Pcar / Mark (extra note) / Tim
Let’s see, in no particular oder: levelling Grozny, war crimes in Aleppo, missile attacks on civilian flights, invasion of Crimea, the endemic corruption, the endless lying, plus the poisoning of (at the least)Alexander Litvinenko, Sergei and Yulia Skripal and Alexei Navalny & the odd shooting or two, as well …
However, Chester Draws points a more correct route.
(extra note Tim – As someone who knows Germany, you are a despicable lying piece of fascist shit, projecting your imagination onto a thoroughly decent country & people.
It’s in line with the crap that’s suddenly gone silent about the “EUSSR” before Brexshit fucked us over – & the “4th Reich deliberate lies, in other words… )
I’m more than happy to host disagreement on this site, but can you please exercise a modicum of civility. Ta.
@Greg T
Calling people names because you don’t like the truths they expose is infantile. Are you disputing Zelensky arms, equips, funds and supports the nazi militia and British Army have trained them, including in how to use British supplied anti-tank missiles?
Instead of constant ad-hom attacks, why don’t you prove what is said is wrong?
As for the:
– killing people: David Kelly, Robin Cook
– missile attacks on civilians: Obama, Clinton & Biden in Afghanistan, Iraq, Syria
– Invasion of Sovereign country: Iraq, Libya, Syria, Afghanistan, Serbia, Egypt… Plus Pakistan incursion by Obama, Clinton & Biden
Come back when you’re a coherent adult