The police and the politicians…
“Under no circumstances would we want members of the public to arm themselves with firearms, not least because officers responding would not know who the offenders were, and quite obviously they would not have the time to ask. Our message to the public is a simple one: to run, to hide and to tell.”
Alison Hernandez was being naïve if she thought that the response would be any different. Indeed, so inured have we become to the idea that we should not defend ourselves, the presenter of the programme simply repeats the mantra.
The presenter said he could not believe the chief constable would entertain the idea of the public defending themselves with firearms.
How far we have come in a hundred years or so with a meek, cowed population that relies on the authorities to make us safe. Okay, there are downsides to an armed population – and I can think of people who should never be allowed near a firearm – but the basic principle of defending ourselves is not one that should be so readily dismissed. One trained and armed person during an attack could deal with the terrorists while Plod is still putting his bicycle clips on – after all, when seconds count, the police are only minutes away.
However, it’s not really guns or gun control that bothers me here – it is the attitude of both the population and the authorities that we should be meek, cowed and compliant, unable and unwilling to defend ourselves.
It’s quite funny on facebook at the moment. Someone will randomly post about how dangerous these terrorists are becoming and whatever are we to do. I respond with a comment about armed citizens being able to stop an attack in far less than eight minutes and they instantly go off on one about how bad it would be if people had guns
Someone told me the Manchester attack would have been far worse if the terrorist had access to a gun. My response that he had a bomb, something that killed all those people in the blink of an eye, rather than giving an armed citizen the time to intervene, did not go down too well.
An echo from Victoria times: “So long as they don’t kill the dukes.” It seems that little changes.
On this occasion I disagree with Longrider. Widespread ownership of firearms potentially brings with it all sorts of unwanted collateral of the kind we currently see in the United States, where every man, his wife his dog and the street kids outside has a gun.
A country where every year over 10,000 Americans are killed by other Americans; thugs shooting people on the streets, rednecks shooting thier Cousins over spilt beer, small children shooting thier friends and parents with guns discovered in draws plus of course every whackjob with emotional issues who decides to liquidate thier local school or cinema.
I’m not disagreeing that the state continually seeks to infantalise the population, but on this issue it seems clear to me that in the widest context the risks clearly outweigh the benefits.
No one said anything about widespread. The original discussion was from someone who was trained in their use. One trained firearms holder could have stopped the London Bridge attack.
However, that wasn’t really the point I was making – it was a more general one about how we have become a cowed and compliant society that doesn’t defend itself.
It’s not the number of guns, it’s the culture.
Switzerland!
Bang, your argument is dead.
Czech Republic … 200K+ of the ca. 300K gun license holders can concealed carry…..
Czechs also have quite a high rate of gun death.
Switzerland has a high rate of gun death, Fred. They’ve had quite a few mass murders too.
And that in a peaceful and law abiding country.
So whose argument is dead?
Prove it. Go ahead and provide government backed statistics or other information that will demonstrate or prove your statement.
(Hint – try the United Nations for their reports on which countries have the highest murder rates and which countries have the strictest firearms laws).
High? Even a cursory reading of the stats make you look a fool. Try comparing that to a country where gun ownership is less than half of the Swiss. Like the socialist paradise of Venezuela perhaps? 10.7 guns per 100 and almost 60 gun deaths per 100000.
“Be sure to bring your revolver tonight Watson… the Game’s afoot.
That was an age when the public was trusted with firearms. Indeed the first “Peelers” who were unarmed, used to borrow guns from the general public as a matter of course to affect an arrest.
Why are we trusted no longer?
If it comes to a choice between armed citizens and dead citizens the filth and the rest of the PTB would have no trouble in deciding that the former solution is preferable by far.
Sorry — cocked that up! I meant to say ‘the latter’. I’ll have to see about getting a brain transplant ;( !
I’m with the Americans on this one. Whilst the terrorist is my enemy, my most dangerous enemy is the state because it has the power to do whatever it wants, when it suits it. It was Jefferson who said that ” “The strongest reason for the people to retain their right to keep and bear arms is as a last resort to protect themselves against tyranny in government” It’s as true now as it was then.
Having said that, it is clear that most responsible, sensible people should be able to carry guns, having had the proper training in use as well as reasons to use.
It sounds harsh I know, but I would rather 5,000 dead every year by guns than an entire population cowed, timid and frightened not only by terrorists but by their government.
We can argue ethics and all the rest of it till the cows come home, but too many people forget the basic nature of humans. We will subjugate, oppress and punish those we deem as weaker and enslave them if possible. It was like that in Egypt of the Pharoah’s and it’s no different today.
Amen to that
I wonder if we could interest the Yanks in providing a few million of those ‘Liberator’ single shot pistols from WW2, or possibly something like a Mk3 Sten? Imagine the (brief) look on the monkey-boys faces when Allah Akbar suddenly ran into a couple of mags from that! Better yet, imagine the coppers looks when their ‘request’ to have them turned in was met by ‘No’ and the sound of it being cocked.