Arguing With Idiots on the Internet

Another in my occasional series. Another YouTube discussion. This time, regarding an MP who asked whether motorcyclists and cyclists should be forced to wear Vi Viz. Answer – no.


Fairly straightforward stuff, really. I recall arguments about daytime headlights twenty or so years ago. The same applied. There is no empirical evidence to suggest that they have a benefit, so make your own decision. That was my position then, and it remains so today – except that we have lost that choice on modern motorcycles.

Actually, they don’t necessarily make things worse. They might in certain circumstances. Their benefits are limited, though. They are most effective at low speed or in a slide, but high-speed impact is likely to be fatal regardless of helmet wear. However, anyone who disagrees with this chump is a flat earther. It’s a bit rich coming from someone with such limited intellect, though.

The reality being that fewer deaths led to more paraplegics. The point about skin is a valid one. If you hit a large heavy object, no clothing will protect internal organs. If you slide down the road, the clothing will give you more time to come to a stop before your skin is being grated off. Whatever you wear, it is a final barrier in the event of it all going south, it is not some sort of magic that will work in all circumstances. Still, what came next was interesting. Incoherent, but interesting.

The first statement is false. Nothing more to be said on that one. The second is outright bizarre. No one rides naked – at least not to my knowledge and they would be arrested if they did. The rest of it is incoherent gibberish. This is an object lesson in why English grammar is so essential. I cannot determine whether he has been riding forty years or if he is suggesting that I have (fifty this year, actually). His statement that I am rusty (assuming the second possibility) is bizarre. How on earth would he know? It’s pure conjecture. Fiction.

On that final point, yes people can lose traction, however, this can be mitigated with suitable planning and awareness. That very much is about keeping your skills up to date. It has nothing to do with your choice of clothing. This halfwit is conflating clothing with skills. This is deeply weird.

This is standard risk management stuff. The old 5×5 system. You look at likelihood and consequence. The preferred method is to prioritise reducing or avoiding likelihood. As I point out, this is pretty basic stuff.

No, you cannot control all situations, but you can manage the vast majority with observation and forward planning and riders do not go down all the time. I rarely hear about riders going down randomly. Indeed, hardly at all. I do not prepare to crash, I prepare to avoid them. But according to this fuckwit, I’m the one who needs to think. So I pulled rank.

One thing that is guaranteed to wind me up is the strawman and this lackwit has been doing that. Given my background, I do have an understanding of the subject matter. Nothing I said was an excuse to not ride safely. I’ve spent forty years on and off in the world of road safety. I understand it. The strawmanning is strong with this one.

How to win friends and influence people, eh? Tell a professional how to do his job. That always works. My response here is the second attempt. YouTube vanished my first reply. It was polite enough, but I must have said something it didn’t like. You have to constantly second guess your wording with YouTube as even the most innocent words or phrases can get a comment black holed.

I am always willing to listen to advice on my training or riding. However, it needs to come from someone whose opinion I respect and someone who knows what they are talking about, not some random fuckwit on the Internet who is unable to comprehend or write basic English and is so stupid, they think their strawman is a coherent argument.

On the subject in hand, by all means wear HV if you like. It makes no difference to me. I choose not to as do most of the riding instructors I know and work with – make of that what you will. Understanding saccadic masking and being ready to compensate for it is probably going to be of greater help, but you do your thing and I’ll do mine. The difference is that I don’t tell people what they should do.

11 Comments

  1. I used to wear hi-viz and used dipped headlights except when I had the sun behind me. My bike had a full fairing and was yellow. With all that, there were still times when I thought that I must be invisible. That is something that you need to anticipate even when you’re in your car but especially on a motorbike.

  2. Hi vis and DRLs have now lost their effect, there’s so many of the bloody things they no longer stand out.
    If anything the assault on our eyes from thousands of ever brighter lights, stupidly bright advertising screens popping up like weeds too, has resulted in night and dull light vision is all but destroyed.

    Older drivers will recall when driving in London 40 or more years ago everyone would be on sidelights only, no one needed hi vis or headlights because everyone still had some night vision and unlit pedestrians/cyclists etc weren’t effectively invisible as they are now.
    Woe betide the stranger driving with headlights on, about as popular as dose of the clap.

  3. I seem to recall a news item about the police stopping motorcyclists and hassling them about not wearing any hi-viz items. Definitely out of order, stopping people and giving them grief for stuff that isn’t illegal.

    As a cyclist I was much happier once USB charged LED cycle lights became available. Cycling in the dark back when I had a paper round involved cycle lights that were pretty dismal. Battery lights that were dim and consumed batteries voraciously. Bottle dynamo lights which were bright enough but were like a built in head wind. As a kid I can remember seeing hub dynamos on bikes ridden by old people going so slowly that their lights were just a faint orange glow.

    I had a reversible cycle top that was yellow with fluorescent trim for daytime, and for night time, the whole thing was fluorescent. It stood out a mile if lights shone on it but went totally dark otherwise.

  4. There is a case for not only lights but wearing some colours other than black.

    Anyone know the South Marston stretch of the A420 approaching Swindon from Oxford, this time of year its filthy, overgrown hedges both sides and a thoroughly worn out narrow road surface, its like being in the darkness of the pit along that stretch.

    I’m approaching Swindon around 5.45am a few weeks ago, luckily my truck has LED headlights which are a revelation to the candles i’ve endured over many years behind the wheel, morphing from the gloom on the other was a cyclist, dressed all in drab clothing not a single light to be seen.
    Bearing down on him are two artics, i flashed them up along with hazards and gratifyingly noticed the brake lights come on as we passed, even if cars are coming the other way there’s no room for a truck to pass a cyclist, let alone allow a safe passing gap.
    If that clown does the journey every day in a smilar fashion he’ll do well to see the winter out.

    Stonyground, i remember those tyre driven dynamo lights well, hard work indeed.
    As a boy you couldn’t afford to run those Ever Ready standard bike lights either, ridiculous how rapidly a pair of U2s could discharge for a couple of candlepower light output.

    • “…the candles i’ve endured over many years behind the wheel…”

      When we first met, my now wife had a mini with seven inch sealed beam headlights. I was so appalled the first time I rode in it after dark that I went out and bought her a quartz halogen conversion kit for it.

  5. I have a bright yellow helmet and matching jacket. I also have a flag flapping behind the rear seat. It may just be the equivalent of peeing oneself while wearing a dark suit, (you get a nice warm feeling, but no one else notices).

    • This is true. However, sometimes you have to give them just enough rope. This one was interesting. The combination of self-important arrogance and complete ignorance was a wonder to behold.

  6. I’d like pedestrians and joggers who think it is safer to jog in the middle of the road rather than on a pavement to wear hi viz or light colours. As a driver I find oncoming headlights blinding so can do without dark figures suddenly appearing in front of me. Of course they can’t hear anything as they have their radios on and earphones.
    We have solar lights along streets, great on sunny days but dull misty raining days they go very dim, this doesn’t help at all.

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