A historian has called for military service to be re-introduced 60 years after it was abandoned to boost the public’s understanding of defence as Britain’s armed forces face an ‘existential crisis’.
Professor Sir Hew Strachan warned in his report, commissioned by the Ministry of Defence, of a ‘communication gap’ between the military and British public that has, in some cases, led to wounded soldiers being viewed as victims rather than victors.
He also cautioned that, when discussed, the military languishes in a ‘mythologised memory of the Second World War’ rather than an appreciation of how conflict is experienced and conducted today.
This vile idea just won’t die and there is always some moron who thinks it its somehow the answer to some problem or other. A bit like identity cards – a solution for the hard of thinking, desperately seeking a problem to solve.
How we might view injured soldiers does not under any circumstances justify indentured service. This is an idea that is abhorrent and morally indefensible in all cases. And the idea that we should enslave people and send them to war zones to find out what it is like is beyond belief. Did he buy his professorship off the Internet?
We have a highly trained, professional volunteer armed defence – that is how it should be. Quite apart from the idea of reintroducing slavery, why would a highly professional service want to babysit a bunch of recalcitrant raw recruits? That’s assuming that young people meekly respond to call up papers, because I would expect a significant refusal rate and rightly so.
Wounded service personnel returning from Iraq or Afghanistan ‘have been characterised (in part thanks to the well-intentioned efforts of organisations like Help for Heroes or communities like Royal Wootton Bassett) as victims, not victors, who have suffered in wars of “choice”, not wars of necessity.’
They are wars of choice. Not one of the conflicts in recent years has been necessary. The last one that was, was the Falklands and even that was avoidable if the government of the day had acted on intelligence received.
None of this, however, justifies enslaving people.
The professor drew parallels with European neighbours such as Denmark, which has a Defence Day (compulsory for males; voluntary for females) when young people are ‘enticed to sign up for service or compelled into it’.
France, which is facing many of the same challenges as Britain, re-introduced compulsory military conscription two years ago, which was trialled with 2,000 French teenagers last year.
Those aged 16 will be required to complete a month of compulsory service and can then opt for a further three-month voluntary service.
Germany, which abandoned conscription in 2011, has also started considering conscription bringing in citizens from across the EU.
Estonia and Norway have both maintained military conscription along with Sweden, whose army takes in about 4,000 recruits annually.
Just because our more fascist inclined European neighbours do it, it doesn’t follow that we should. If Sir Hew Strachan wishes to take up arms, that’s fine, let him. He has no right whatsoever to expect the state to enforce it on others. We and our bodies do not belong to the state. There are no circumstances where enslaving people is justified. None whatsoever. If a state cannot defend itself with sufficient volunteers, it does not deserve to survive.
We pay handsomely through taxation for our armed services, which is how it is supposed to work. And, frankly, we get good value for money from the people who choose to serve. We should not then expect to be conscripted to do it ourselves. Those who want to, sign up voluntarily and willingly, knowingly, take the risks it involves and good luck to them. It takes a certain type of personality to enjoy that life and they are the ones who should do it.
Conscription in the UK was thrown out in 1960 as it tied up regular soldiers in training and drained the workforce from the economy, according to the London-based National Army Museum.
But still this moron wants to bring it back.
Training is expensive, doubly expensive if you cannot retain people after training.
True. When I considered joining the RN back in the seventies, my chosen career path would have been flying helicopters. Minimum commission of 12 years to justify the investment. I sometimes wonder if I made a bad choice in not signing, but it’s all in the past now.
I gave serious thought to RAF sponsored degree as Fast Jets strongly appealed – I was in CCF (RAF) at school & flown prop trainers. Decided I didn’t want the compulsion and restrictions I’d have to accept
Likewise.
Britain has a very long history of using an all volunteer force. Indeed, maintaining a large standing army was something the Europeans did. This was especially notable at the beginning of WW1 when continental conscript armies numbered in the millions. Conscript service was invariably followed by long retention in the reserves until the troops were in their forties. Of course we had a large Navy because trade protection went a long way to keeping the Peace and Britain also had a policy of not engaging in European disputes except to calm the parties down and keep the peace. Had the Germans not invaded Belgium in 1914 it is interesting to consider to what extent the Empire may have been involved. Simply put, National Service of the post-WW2 variety is economically unsustainable and offers Britain no Political or Strategic advantage. Even maintaining BAOR was a major change in Britain’s strategic policy.
Army don’t want conscription
https://www.arrse.co.uk/community/threads/cgs-upgrading-challenger-and-warrior.252210/page-372#post-9986293
@Michael
Good post
@LR
OT
https://lockdownsceptics.org/2020/04/27/latest-news-13/ by Toby Young
H/T https://velvetgloveironfist.blogspot.com/2020/04/last-orders-lockdown-edition.html
Excellent little article. It does endorse the desirability of the citizenry having the right to bear arms and establish local militia in my view. If there is a State that values freedom that cannot persuade sufficient people to volunteer for money to join the Armed Services that State should not simultaneously deny the people the right to volunteer for free.
The only “existential crisis” that the armed services face is the increasing SJW and political interference in the recruitment, running and operating of them. For example, women in the Royal Marines and the SAS. They cannot pass the normal selection process without the rules being bent and disregarded but there must be a certain percentage of women “because” and of course, the whole organisation must change to suit them. I recall an article I read (can’t remember where) that on a Royal Navy ship which had about 5% women, 25% of the facilities (toilets, accommodation etc.) was reserved for them and the men had to double up. “Because”. Great way to promote teamwork and mutual understanding.
As for national Service, I will leave this here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G0ZZJXw4MTA
Depends on who, and more importantly, how you ask, eh?
National Service following WW2 was needed because Britains defence shifted from a large Navy to protect the Empire and the coastline from invasion to defending West Germany from the USSR under pressure from the USA to dismantle the Empire and fleet. It is covered well in Arthur Herman’s book “To Rule the waves – How the British Navy Shaped the Modern World”. You simply could not transfer seamen to the army and use them as infantry, hence the need to enforce conscription.
For Britains reliance on the Navy for defence prior and up to WW1 Robert K. Massie book “Dreadnought” describes this in detail and also the haldane reforms of 1909 reorganising the Army to fight a continental war.
Is it the case that whenever some one starts advocating the return of National Service, it is always some one who won’t have to do it themselves?
Most young people wouldn’t be fit enough anyway so I wouldn’t get too worried. Hew Strachan is a well respected historian. Read his history of the First World War. For the record I totally agree with him. He is no moron.
Fitness can be gained and an awful lot of young people that I know cycle regularly, so I’m not sure that the fitness thing is true. That aside – indentured service is always wrong in all cases. No one has the right to coerce someone else into service, be it an individual, a business or the state. There are no grey areas with this one. Slavery is wrong. No exceptions.
Doesn’t matter how respected Strachan is as an historian (it’s an appeal to authority fallacy anyway) the idea is morally wrong and thinking that it is a solution, despite its immoral nature is moronic. He’s been charged with coming up with solutions and his solution is enslaving people. Yup, A moron.
I disagree. It would do them good and is not moronic. I cannot see why it is morally wrong. Same silly argument over identity cards yet France and Sweden use them successfully. No he is not a moron just because you don’t agree with him.
He is a fine example of education and intelligence being no barrier to stupidity. No one has the moral right to enforce anyone to work for them against their will. We abolished slavery in this country two hundred years ago yet this twat wants to bring it back. He is a moron, not because he disagrees with me, but because he came up with a stupid and outdated idea whose time has passed – and should never have happened in the first place. We own our bodies, not the state. Same with identity cards – a solution desperately looking for a problem to solve. Not needed and I would never carry one. Enslavement of others doesn’t become ok because it is the state doing it. Enslavement is always morally wrong.
You have absolutely no evidence that it will do people good. Taking someone out of their lives for a couple if years and enforcing military discipline for no good reason? How is this going to do anyone any good? The young people I meet and train in my daily life are perfectly fine. Decent and upstanding members of society. Enforced military servitude won’t make them better people, nor will it do them good. If anything it will cause harm, especially if they get caught up in a war.
You would have to do as you are told. You may meet fit young people. They are an exception. Most around where i live spend most of their spare time in their bedrooms playing games or social media. Many when they go out venture as far as Mcdonalds for a take away particularly at the weekend. When they have eaten it they chuck the rubbish out of the window.Undoubtedly many young people are fine. My own included. Unfortunately much UK parenting is failing. Just look at the litter everywhere.
I would add one exception:
– Slavery of prisoners 8 hours a day, 5 1/2 days a week to pay for their full-board accommodation
Prisoners have already sacrificed liberty when they took part in their crimes and were convicted. Of course that’s the whole thing about habeas corpus – no man may be imprisoned without conviction by a jury of his peers. A concept that has unfortunately been eroded in this country. And conscription violates habeas corpus. Hence it is immoral as well as a violation of common law principles.