The Guardian peddling its usual bullshit – lacking any scientific evidence whatsoever, it makes a bold claim.
Mixed messages from government don’t help, but face masks must become a social norm to have an impact on coronavirus
What it needs – as Peter Hitches has mentioned repeatedly now – is for the the government to do the right thing and admit that it made a terrible mistake, that the threat has been over stated and please can we get back to normal, thank-you very much.
Face masks will have zero impact on a virus that is already fizzling out and is under evolutionary pressure to grow milder and to which we have already developed a reasonably effective immunity.
What the response to face masks has told us is that the British people lost their backbone sometime in the past half century or so – not to mention their sense of proportion and response to risk.
Later this week, the wearing of masks in shops and supermarkets will become mandatory in England. The question then will be how quickly the public accepts this new law – whether face masks become a social norm could be of vital importance to public health.
No. It. Isn’t. It is a placebo designed to coax a petrified populace cowed by relentless scaremongering to venture out to the shops again and to help rebuild the trashed economy. That’s it. Fuck all to do with health. Where have we heard that before?
The science behind the benefits of mask wearing is pretty solid. Masks principally protect others. You wear them because you don’t want to pass on a nasty virus that you may not know you have. Pretty simple. Mathematical models suggest the more people that wear masks, the lower the transmission rate (“effective R”). And when we look abroad, the evidence supports this contention.
Fuck off. Randomised trials have shown nothing of the sort – mathematical models are not science, despite charlatans claiming that they are. As the Imperial College has demonstrated time after time. In fact, if anything the evidence demonstrates the opposite as cloth masks do absolutely nothing to prevent spread and there is more likelihood of people touching their faces, actively increasing the risk. This is just propaganda. No one has produced any robust, peer reviewed, randomised trials that demonstrate what is being claimed.
Mask wearing is, without the apparent necessity to enforce laws, almost ubiquitous in China, Japan, and south-east Asia.
If the Japanese all jumped off tall buildings, would we do it because they have? Because other people do it, is not an argument.
In a country once called the “deferential nation”, you might expect this policy would go down with relative ease. But a cursory glance at newspaper articles shows English commentators bristling at the suggestion of mandatory mask wearing. According to the Conservative MP Desmond Swayne, face masks are a “monstrous imposition” that threaten our fundamental liberties; the New York Times, meanwhile, reports that people in England would “rather be sick than embarrassed”.
Actually, this gives me cause for optimism. Perhaps – you know, the English are not so deferential after all? Perhaps we can see propaganda for what it is? Perhaps we realise that the actual risk of getting sick is small – vanishingly so – and yes, it is a monstrous imposition that is entirely unnecessary, so the risk of not wearing silly masks is worth it.
For masks to be effective, people need to conform to wearing them.
No, it doesn’t matter how many people wear them, they will not be effective. What is effective is something nature gave us – our immune systems. Being the emeritus professor of public health at the London School of Hygiene and Tropical Medicine, Coker should realise this.
What would be nice would be a mass refusal to comply, but I’m pessimistic. A half century ago, it might have been a different story.
No face nappies for me.
About national character (BTW, I’m Scottish), till recently, I had an Orwellian view. Ironic, shrewd, sceptical, tolerant, eccentric, funny, ingenious, vulgar. I liked the people I share the country with, on the whole. Lately, I’m not so sure. Mean-minded snitches, sanctimonious, arrogant empty human-shaped husks. The adult form of those kids in the playground who said “I’m telling teacher on you”. They’ve certainly been crawling out from under their stones recently. I suppose they’ve always been there. I’ve certainly been disabused of some of my fond notions about some of my compatriots.
Still, look on the bright side. There’s still real flesh and blood people among the reptiles.
The Govt. are being crafty. If there’s a Second Wave at all, no matter large or small, they will say that masks reduced the effect, and prove it by wheeling out some tame mathematical modeller to say so.
OTOH, if there’s no Second Wave masks prevented it. QED. Win-win.
I think the main problem here is that people in general are busy and too polite (and frustratingly conformist). Refusing to wearing a mask risks delaying you at the shop, whilst possibly upsetting a bed-wetter who believes we are in the midst of a serious pandemic and nobody wants to create a scene; how very British!
I’ve not met anyone who thinks the masks will make the slightest bit of difference, but they are all willing to accept them so they can carry on as ‘normal’ . Depressingly I seem to be the only one who is willing to take a stand, which I’m sure will result in some entertaining scenes at the shops. If only I could count on the support of those around me this ridiculous pantomime would be rebuffed pretty quickly.
Sigh
I agree. Masks will be about as much use as tits on a fish. While out and about I’ve been casually observing people and how they “manage” their masks and I’ve come to the following conclusions:
1 most people don’t know how to put them on safely.
2 when they have got them on they invariably don’t wear them properly.
3 most people don’t know how to take them off safely.
3 they wear them without really understanding why they wear them.
My overall conclusion is that mask wearers are of lower cognitive abilities than those that don’t.
Less than 10% of shoppers currently wear masks prior to compulsion so they know the masks are useless for the reasons outlined by Longrider. If most shop workers were currently wearing masks I might well already be doing so myself but they are not.
My Mask Exempt laminated card has arrived
“ I have a Disability/Health Condition and
am exempt from wearing a face covering.
Thank You”.
It comes with a splendidly vivid orange/red lanyard embossed loudly with MASK EXEMPT.
I will show this to the Door Marshal knowing that I do not need to tell them the nature of my disability and neither do I need a note from the Doctor, nor from my Mum.
Wow a virus so nasty you don’t even know you’ve got it, thank St Jacinda Jong-Un that I’m safely ensconced on a prison island for my own safety
? Longrider. Chatting to a lad who needs his bike licence to make getting to work easier. Seems he passed his theory test some time ago and was due his road test just as lockdown fell.
He now has to join the back of the queue for his road test by when his theory test will be time expired.
The DVLA refuses to extend that period even though it was they that shut up shop for 4 months. Sound about right to you ?
Sounds about right. The DVSA is typical of a government agency – useless, inefficient, self-important and a complete lack of customer focus. Their communication with the various training bodies has been nothing short of appalling this past few months. However, it might be worth appealing on the grounds of exceptional circumstance. Worth a try. Get him to ask his MP to step in. See if that makes them sit up and take notice.
“…almost ubiquitous in China, Japan, and south-east Asia.”
Utter nonsense. I’ve spent years in Japan and mask wearing is not even close to ubiquitous, Japanese are a very polite people, and do wear a mask in cold weather if they themselves are feeling ill, but even in midwinter you’ll see a handful of people a day, even in the centre of Tokyo.
Then you may be able to confirm something. As I understand it, the Japanese will wear a mask because they have a cough or cold to prevent the spread of droplets to healthy people. Otherwise they do not? This is my understanding of Japanese practice. And which has a degree of logic about it.
The quote you highlight from Coker suggests that he may be lumping them in with the Koreans and Chinese indiscriminately without understanding the differences in culture. But, you know, these Asians, all alike…
Hi. What you wrote is correct. If a Japanese person feels well enough to be out, but a sniffle or cough, they will wear a mask as a courtesy to others. In winter time you do occasionally see people, for example in Tokyo you’d see a few a people in a day. It’s not unusual, but not at all common.
In summer…..it’s in the 30s and humidity off the charts – you don’t see masks. For one people are less likely to be ill in summer, but it would also be insanely uncomfortable (wearing clothes is really uncomfortable in Tokyo summer…)
I’ve way less experience of Korea, but I suspect it’s the same. But Japan for sure “ubiquitous” is enormously overstated.
Interesting stuff from Japan:
Mask wearing is fetishised over there.
Reporter seems to think it is ubiquitous.
The other article admits it’s a comfort blanket.
https://www.straitstimes.com/asia/east-asia/mask-appeal
https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1111/j.1467-9566.2012.01466.x
What a shame when the government finally got round to testing people they never thought to add a liitle question to the ID form “Do you wear a mask outdoors – Always , Frequently , Seldom , Never”. Pretty soon we could have gathered some useful info but then again is that really what they want ?