We do not need another lock-down.
An Independent Sage remember has reiterated the group’s call for nationwide tier 4 measures, as millions more were plunged into the highest level of restrictions in England.
Dr Zubaida Haque said the committee were “very worried” and said tier 4 was needed “everywhere now to save lives”.
FFS! Lock-downs cost lives. They trash livelihoods, plunge the country into debt and send individuals into penury, mental illness, un-diagnosed illnesses and suicide. They are a destructive device that has been proven repeatedly not to work (along with the insanity of mask-wearing). You cannot control an airborne virus. You have to let it fizzle out, which is precisely what it is doing. As Professor Anthony Brookes points out here what we are seeing is normal for this time of the year and in previous years where the death rate was similar to 2019/20, we didn’t panic and trash people’s lives.
Thousands of people die every day. This is normal as we are mortal beings. During the winter months, the cause is often respiratory disease. This year, influenza and pneumonia are down and covid is up, but the death rate is pretty normal for the time of the year.
So, no, we do not need to go into tier 4. What is needed is some sanity and a return to normality. The last thing we need is the charlatans in SAGE “saving lives” as they have already done enough damage, thanks very much.
Sadly just can’t see any common sense returning any time soon. Not sure what will be left at the end of all this, for the first time in my life I regret having kids. Love them to bits, but I’m not sure what world they’re going to inherit.
This is fucked though. I’ve lost almost all faith in my fellow Britons, I can’t in good conscience continue to be ‘nice’ about this when the figures that disprove everything are there quite clearly to see on the ONS website. People I consider intelligent actually believe this bull. But then I cut the cord about 15 years ago, no TV, no newspapers etc.
In utter despair here tbh. Had I no children, I reckon by now I could have walked off a very tall building as many already have.
That there are some sane voices out there is all that keeps me going most days.
I began to notice I had really fallen out of step with my fellow Britons when I found them all protesting about the ‘Poll Tax’ in the early 80s, when I thought it was a damn good idea. I’ve disagreed with almost all of them ever since.
I thought it was a great idea too.
I disagreed with the poll tax. The rates system was bad and needed reform, but the poll tax wasn’t based on ability to pay. Which is why I oppose all forms of per capita, wealth or property taxation.
But, then, I oppose most taxes as a matter of course. The less the state has, the less it can piss up the wall.
@LR
Benefits were increased to cover cost of average community charge, thus it was not ‘punishing poor’ like green levies do. Vote for a profligate council, pay more. Making every voter have skin in the game is fair and democratic
A per capita tax for finite* local services is as fair as paying any goods/services/memberships fee/price
Scotland: SNP have effectively removed single occupant 25% discount if on benefits – 100% of water & sewage charge must be paid despite that being a standout service a single occupant uses less of
* One can’t have more street lights, bin collections, libraries, roads… than one’s neighbours, but the more occupants the higher the usage.
The fundamental flaw in this system was the lack of ability to pay. The wealthy found themselves better off, while those of benefits were relived of the burden. The burden fell inevitably on the modest earners who found their bills skyrocketing.
I had my own driving school at the time and the poll tax killed it off in a matter of months. I wasn’t well enough established to have a steady stream of recommendations. The youngsters suddenly found themselves having to pay a hefty tax bill despite being on low incomes or still living with parents. The parents suddenly found that their bill had increased substantially and couldn’t then afford my services as their incomes weren’t increasing to compensate.
So I had a dramatic increase in outgoings myself along with a loss of income. Hence taking a job on the railway, which as it turned out wasn’t such a bad move.
Any tax, regardless of what it is for must always take into account the ability to pay it from disposable income and this one failed because it didn’t. The LibDems’ idea of a localised income tax was more equitable as it did take that into account.
I start from a position that the state is little more than a criminal gang engaging in a protection racket, so all taxation should be resisted as a matter of principle. However, if we accept that it is a necessary evil, then ability to pay must always be a fundamental part of the system.
Okay, you know as well as I do that it doesn’t work like that. When has voting ever given us what we wanted? If this last year hasn’t been an object lesson in that, I don’t know what is. As for profligacy, all government whatever stripe is guilty. Voting has no effect on this whatsoever. I am happy to pay for streetlamps, refuse collection, road maintenance (oh, if only) and emergency services. If I had the choice, I would pay for these and not pay for all the other stuff the local council does, that I neither want nor need. That would be fair and reasonable.
Not necessarily. Does a four person household use more streetlamps than a single occupant? Or go to the library more? What if they are a single vehicle household, do they use the roads more than a single occupant with more than one vehicle? The only example there that would apply is refuse collection. We could play this one all day. Sure, services should be paid for by those who use them, but the poll tax was a blunt instrument and unfair, hence the backlash.
One lesson that we have failed to learn from the poll tax is that governments can be forced to change tack with mass civil disobedience. Thirty years ago, people were prepared to resist, yet today, the population is supine and compliant with draconian rules made up on the hoof without any scrutiny. A little poll tax rebellion is precisely what we need right now.
My experience differs from your’s. Our bill went down when my mum, brother and I had to pay Community Charge compared to rates (avg 3 bed semi, Labour council), if dad had still been alive it would have been ~£100pa more.
Roads used by all: walk, cycle, bus, drive, taxi
imho it failed because Left and media promoted fact those on benefits had to pay, but omitted their benefits had been increased to cover cost
Similar to Food Banks now. Under Labour the media, DWP etc pretended they didn’t exist
No, it failed for one reason only. Ability to pay. That was it. The rates were rightly unpopular. Your skin in the game had merit. But without that ability to pay built in, the can’t pay won’t pay argument was always going to win.
While Labour may have played the benefits card (no change there), on the ground opposition crossed partisan lines as middle income families already struggling with high mortgage interest rates were slapped with increased tax bills. It was a massive own goal for the Tories.
Under 18 – No payment reqd
Student – 20% payment reqd Grants increased to cover payment
Unemployed – 20% payment reqd Benefits increased to cover payment
100% Community Charge was ~<£1 per day
Who were these "can’t pay won’t pay"? Usual freeloaders and anti-Tory rabble same as BLM, XR, Greens….
It was Left & Media against Gov. Everyone I knew at Uni and biker mates liked it and thought fair. Because they were achievers, not freeloaders?
No, sorry, but it wasn’t freeloaders complaining about a massive increase in costs. I was working six days a week. My clients were either youngsters in their late teens early twenties. Some were exempt, yes, but most were in work. The other cohort were the middle aged returners. None of these people were freeloaders or rabble, they (and I) were earning a modest wage. Too high to claim benefits but low enough to feel the sting.
Lucky you. Here it was more than that under the old rates system and under the poll tax it nearly doubled. When that was scrapped, the council tax fell a bit but not by much. That said, it’s been pretty stable and in real terms has fallen due largely to local taxpayers telling the council pretty firmly that we don’t want them pushing up our bills to pay for stuff we don’t want and don’t need.
There were more imaginative and fairer ways of raising money for local services – for example, refuse collection was privatised in the early nineties, but instead of contracting to the councils, they could have competed directly for our custom, libraries likewise, those that want the service buy a subscription, for other things, such as road maintenance, well, the LibDem suggestion of a localised income tax was a fair and pragmatic solution as it took into account the ability to pay. Squeezing the middle and low income earners irrespective of income wasn’t it. As I said, this revolt crossed party lines. It was a modern peasants revolt.
On balance, tax revolts are a good thing. Politicians seem to think they can steal with impunity. An occasional revolt to remind them otherwise is no bad thing.
I only wish we would see such mobilisation today.
@LS, @WtF
Agree it’s tyrany and a “doing something power trip”, but sadly it’s coming. NI now has 8pm – 6am curfew. Scot & Wales will copy. Then Hancock will do same
Reusing:
New generations who are beguiled by communism & socialism façade of egalitarianism are the biggest threat to humanity. Worse is the idiocy of excusing it’s failue everytime it’s been tried, yet believing it will work this/next time…
…rather like lockdowns which Left also adore
SAGE is Far Left and Communists
Excellent article here:
https://www.manhattancontrarian.com/blog/2020-12-22-contrast-between-new-york-and-florida
“The virus does its own thing, despite our dictators’ desperate need to show that they are “doing something,” however damaging or meaningless the “something” may be.”
We need a Military Coup
PS: Saw a comment about the public snitch type lockdown and rules/laws zealots:
They’re like the selfish “If I can’t, you won’t” car drivers who deliberately block motorcycle filtering and overtaking
PPS: Another nice 3 household day – I’m stuffed full again of Turkey etc Plenty of neighbours breaking rules too
I went to see my father just before Christmas and met up with two of my sisters. Drove a coach and four through the rules.
LR
I think another national lockdown is inevitable at this point. Pcar (as always) brings in the curfew angle which is a new twist. I think for NI they can use legislation that existed during the troubles but expect to see that enacted in Wales by the end of the week. Scotland by the following week and Hapless Hancock will follow suite sometime around mid January.
Of course it’s reprehensible but the Actonian dictum around ‘Absolute Power’ was never more apt. I’m backing Reform UK but aside from the odd but if activity from Richard Tice they’ve been oddly silent. Nigel Farage seems to be busy selling Wealth Management advice (odd given they are coming to take most of your wealth off you) There seems to be no respite in prospect. I can’t see lockdown being lifted until 2022 and have even heard 2028 mentioned.
I’m inclined to agree with you. Depressing, isn’t it?
@VP
No curfews in NI during ‘Troubles’ or World Wars
I’m from Bangor, NI and born early 60s. During ‘troubles’ it was Keep Calm and Carry On. Police were same – no closure of roads, premises just because of a bomb, shooting
Remember, NI “Parliament” is not a democracy (Blair cnut), both sides (regardless of majority) must approve – everything is a compromise. Sin Fein wanted full closure and 24/7 house arrest
I think the worse thing is not knowing when it will all end but HOW it will all end?
WTF does the future hold for us?
I’m 60 so it won’t affect me too much but my daughter and grandchildren?
Dear Mr Longrider
The link now redirects to a different page.
Dr Zubaida Haque does not appear to be a ‘remember’ of independent sage nor an ‘independent remember’ of that other sage with which we are being stuffed. He does however appear to mimic your average tyrant and strut about ordering ever greater imposts upon the public. He, seemingly correctly, assumes the more grotesque the tyranny, the more the public lap it up.
‘Independent stuffing’ truly love the theatre:
https://www.independentsage.org/24-december-2020-emergency-statement-on-new-variant-of-covid-19-and-rapidly-worsening-situation-in-uk/
Sage comprises many groups, some participants “have not given permission to be named”. Sod that for a game of soldiers. If you are on a committee, you are named. If you do not want to be named, get off the committee.
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/scientific-advisory-group-for-emergencies-sage-coronavirus-covid-19-response-membership/list-of-participants-of-sage-and-related-sub-groups
Interestingly Prof Khunti appears on both independent and regular sage. Appropriately Prof Fear is on the scientific pandemic insights group on behaviours (spi-b).
DP
Two Updates
Sky Aus: Boris Johnston wants Lockdowwn 3 until Spring 2021
Gov’t: lockdowns to continue until everyone ‘volunteers’ to be vaccinated ?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SJoADOTXhh0
We Fought the Law and the Law… Didn´t Win
A heart-warming Christmas story from a reader about how he and his family managed to celebrate in spite of all the restrictions.
https://lockdownsceptics.org/2020/12/27/latest-news-236/#we-fought-the-law-and-the-law-didnt-win